Feb
The Green Eyed Monster
Today I’m pondering the “green eyed monster.” Not the large wall in left field at Fenway Park. The Shakespearean one. Jealousy.
O, beware, my lord, of jealousy;
It is the green-ey’d monster, which doth mock
The meat it feeds on. That cuckold lives in bliss,
Who, certain of his fate, loves not his wronger:
But O, what damnèd minutes tells he o’er
Who dotes, yet doubts, suspects, yet strongly loves!
Not this Green Monster .... (Photo by Aidan C. Siegel. Licensed under Creative Commons)
Iago, of course, warns Othello about the danger of jealousy, even as he stokes the emotion. Renaissance men were apparently very worried about their wives cheating on them. Wearing a cuckold’s horns was a dreaded disgrace. I wonder if the later belief that women didn’t enjoy sex was promoted by men in the hope that saying it made it so. Then their wives wouldn’t be tempted to stray.
Poor Desdemona. She’s completely innocent and everything she does makes things worse. The object of unwarranted jealousy is a miserable being.
I’m writing about a jealous hero now. Not Othello jealous. The heroine is not going to end up dead. But definitely suspicious. I’m not sure how far to take things, so I’m going to consult our resident expert, Regency London’s combination of Anne Landers and Miss Manners.
Othello and Desdemona from the Boydell Shakespeare Gallery
Miranda: Ahem. Lady B.
Lady B: Oh, it’s you Miss Neville. I didn’t notice you arrive.
Miranda: You were too busy ogling the Marquess of Bourne and Lord Blackwood.
Lady B: Impertinent Miss N. [pause] They do both have excellent legs. I have it on good authority that Miss MacLean and Miss Ashe are going to marry off these gentlemen at the end of this month [note: she’s right. A Rogue by Any Other Name and When a Scot Loves a Lady are coming February 28]. So let me ogle in peace while they are still bachelors.
Miranda: What does Lord B. think of your excessive interest in masculine pulchritude? If he even knows about it.
Lady B: Lord B. knows everything.
Miranda: I had to ask. Since none of us has ever been allowed to meet him, I wondered if perhaps he lived elsewhere. Scotland, for example. Or the moon.
Lady B: Curiosity killed the cat. For your information Lord B. is never far away and I tell him everything. He shall hear about your snippiness today.
Miranda: I do beg your pardon, Lady B. What I meant to ask was, does Lord B. ever get jealous? After all, not only are you an admirer–an entirely disinterested admirer–of a good pair of male limbs, you’ve also been known to engage in badinage with handsome guests at the ballroom.
Lady B: What of it? Just because I’m married doesn’t mean I’m dead. I like to flirt as much as any debutante miss.
Miranda: And Lord B. doesn’t mind?
Lady B: Before we wed the dear man would go into agonies of jealousy. I loved to tease him and his ravings were deliciously pathetic. But now he knows I love him and would never stray. He trusts me completely.
Miranda: So you think it all comes down to trust and security in a partner’s affections?
Lady B: Exactly. And it goes both ways. When we go to Brighton in the summer there’s nothing he enjoys more than looking through his telescope at the young ladies sea bathing. I encourage it. Keeps him away from the whist table and the port.
So, Ballroom denizens, what do you think? How much jealousy is acceptable and when does it go over the top? How about flirtation? Once you are married/in a fixed relationship is flirting a No-No or a Heck Yes?
Feb 13, 2012
1:41 am
Very interesting topic, Miranda. I suppose there’s no right or wrong answer since it all depends on the relationship but as a natural born flirt married to a natural born flirt, who btw doesn’t think he flirts, I have to say it’s healthy to create a little jealous tension. I flirt when the occasion arises and even flirt with my dh … it’s the 1st point of foreplay after all. Yes, there’s a limit to how far the flirtation should go with anyone other than a partner but I’m with Lady B., I’m married – not dead! ; )
Feb 13, 2012
10:10 am
“a natural born flirt, who btw doesn’t think he flirts” LOL.
Sounds like you and DH have a good understanding. And yes, flirting with others is the beginning of flirting with each other which is….
Feb 13, 2012
2:54 am
Well, I think a little flirting is okay. It really depends on the situation for me, flirting can get you help when you need it, or better service..so I am all for that and my husband and I agree on that. Flirting to make someone have a better day is okay too, my husband will often flirt with a woman who he can just tell is having one of those days and he says you can usually see that spark light up in her and you just know her day will be better from there on out. But other than that I do not think its a good thing. Also, I so love to flirt with my husband!
Feb 13, 2012
10:13 am
Those are all good reasons to flirt, Rhiannon. Your husband sounds like a sweetie. Sometimes we all need the admiration of a strange man to cheer is up.
Dare I say it, but any man who objects to his wife flirting with the waiter is psychotic and needs to be dumped.
Feb 13, 2012
1:47 pm
There are definitely times when being the opposite gender of the salesperson/waiter is useful for better service.
Feb 13, 2012
4:20 pm
LOL, Sabrina!
Feb 13, 2012
4:32 am
Look, don’t touch. Goes for both sides of the relationship. You can say, there is a nice looking guy or lady and may even go in flitatious and harmless banter, but that is as far as it goes.
So, is flirting all right? That depends upon the person. I always like to say that nice looking men can get away with murder, while ugly men can’t. If a nice looking man winked at you and smiled – you would be flattered, while if a man you considered unattractive did that to you, you would shiver and think he is a creep.
Feb 13, 2012
12:37 pm
Interesting to get the “flirtee”‘s perspective, Jamie. I guess we all prefer to be noticed by a handsome man. But what of his wife? Does the handsome man’s wife feel worse than the plain one’s?
Feb 13, 2012
4:27 pm
I have watched women flirt with my husband, who is entirely unaware they’re flirting. These women are supposedly friends to both of us but in fact have thinly veiled crushes on him. They flirt *a lot* and make certain to see him as often as possible. I am gracious, but it most certainly makes me like these women less. So I suppose I’m in the no-flirt category when it comes to married people. That said, friendliness is wonderful. There’s probably a fine line between friendliness and flirting, but it always seems clear to me which is going on.
Feb 13, 2012
6:07 pm
I can see why it annoys you, Katharine, but how marvelous that your husband is unaware of it. Clearly you can trust him and have nothing to fear!
Feb 13, 2012
7:01 pm
That’s funny, and true! Hmm.
Feb 13, 2012
7:31 am
Jealousy is entirely dependent on the situation and the parties. For example it can be helpful if your feeling a little bit unappreciated, inspiring your guy to be jealous reminds him just how important you are to him!
But I think as well as trust other things play a factor in how far you can push things. Like family history, a man whose mother cheated on his father is more likely to get worked up over a harmless flirtation and that’s not the kind of jealous you want to inspire.
I know I’ve always been a bit of a flirt and that didn’t change when I was in relationships. I actually found it quite sexy if my boyfriend got a bit jealous because I knew it wasn’t a serious problem and I think he played up to it sometimes!
Real, serious jealousy is restrictive and, in my opinion, a it boring. But a little light jealousy is fun.
Feb 13, 2012
12:39 pm
All very good points, LL. A man (or woman) would need to be sensitive to his/her partner’s history. In fact sensitivity and care for a partner must generally be held to be a Good Thing. But I so agree that serious – and uncalled for jealousy – is boring and can be very painful.
Feb 13, 2012
9:03 am
Flirting with another while in a committed relationship does not bode well. While one may take it as harmless the other could see it as breaking the commitment. Then he becomes jealous just because you are talking to a man, then it leads into possessiveness and won’t let you out with any one. Then you divorce and then that leads into stalking.
Feb 13, 2012
12:42 pm
Shudder. You are talking about really sick jealousy, Lady Susan. And I’m afraid it exists. Degrees of flirtation probably need to be defined and agreed upon between the partners. But when one defines talking to someone of the opposite sex as flirting, we’re getting into unhealthy territory.
Feb 13, 2012
9:52 am
Hmm. I like watching a hero twist himself inside out over a lady. I find it highly entertaining, and many times it teaches them quite a bit about not waiting until another has shown interest in a woman before showing they care. I think a little jealousy is healthy, it shows that the man has strong feelings for his lady.
But too much jealousy is a symptom of a lack of trust. he has to be able to rely on her faithfulness, or the relationship is doomed.
I also think a little flirting is fine, as long as neither party is bothered by it, and there is no intention behind the flirting. My husband and I have both had what is called a “work husband/wife” before. That’s when you happen to become close friends with someone of the opposite sex, at work, and spend time with them- like going to lunch, etc, more than any of the other employees. As long as there is no intention to stray, then a slightly flirty, fun friendship is fine. (In truth, it’s usually more like a sibling relationship than anything- you want to iron their clothes and find them a date, lol!)
Feb 13, 2012
1:00 pm
I quite agree, Olivia, that the jealousy at the beginning of a relationship in a romance can be so much fun. In the end he has to learn to trust.
Love the idea of the “work husband/wife.” I’m curious about whether it arouses gossip. A while ago a married friend helped me with some computer stuff and I took him to lunch as a thank you. We were in a nice restaurant in our small town, and the next thing we hear is that we’re having an affair! Honi soit qui mal y pense, I wanted to say to these people.
Feb 13, 2012
5:34 pm
Actually, my friend had a funny story about her “work husband” that she shared with me. They were really just very good friends, and when she went out on maternity leave, with her second baby in 14 months, he dropped by the house one day during his lunch hour to check in. He was worried about her, because her husband had been called away on business and she was stuck home with a newborn and a one year old. So, he came by, did some dishes, folded some laundry, cheered her up and took out the trash. She said her neighbors were eyeing them like she should be wearing large, red A on her shirt, lol!
And he was just being a good friend and a nice guy. (Hope some lucky lady snapped him up!)
Feb 13, 2012
6:09 pm
Neighbors! There’s nothing worse than suspicion when innocent (taking us back to Desdemona…)
Feb 13, 2012
10:44 am
Unfortunately, I do think that Romance tends to make jealousy into a good quality–particularly in heroes. This is maybe less of the case now in 2012, but I think back to those early books–the McNaughts and Lindseys and Deverauxs, etc. And there was always some hero going off half-cocked and making a fool of himself in a fit of jealousy…and I love love loved it.
Now, though, I like my romance slightly cooler. I’m married to a man who does not have a jealous bone in his body (except for when I’m swooning over Daniel Craig, whom he calls “Monkey Face,” with disdain), and, while I certainly sometimes *wish* he’d show a bit of McNaughtian jealousy…I’m so happy he’s normal. Because those heroes are JERKS in the real world. There’s nothing heroic about mistrust.
Oh. But flirting? Flirting is 100% acceptable.
Feb 13, 2012
1:06 pm
Oh those old skool romances, Sarah! I’m so glad you brought that up! I too have loved them, while cringing at what these men would be like to live with in real life. The challenge as a writer is for the hero to show that hot sexy jealousy in the course of the story, while making it believable in the end that he has learned to trust and isn’t going to be a jerk for the rest of their lives.
Calling Daniel Craig Monkey Face (sacrilege!) seems an acceptable level of jealousy in a spouse.
My father had a mad crush on Katharine Hepburn going back to his youth. But very sweetly he always said my mother reminded him of Kate. (And believe me, Kate was a lot skinnier)
Feb 13, 2012
12:22 pm
Great and thought provoking post Miranda!
When it comes to jealousy, I think it’s a matter of trust, and speaks to the insecurity of the jealous party as much as the action of the person sparking the jealous. If you have trust and faith in your partner, there is no need for jealousy, in my opinion. And no one should deliberately try to push someone’s buttons to make someone else jealous-that’s just manipulative. But yes, a hero showing a display of jealousy can be great fun! It may not necessarily be as good a thing in real life.
As for flirting, I think if it’s all in innocent fun, and no one is bothered by it, I see no problem with flirting. As my cousin and her husband said, “You can look, but you can’t touch.” Plus, couples who still flirt with each other helps keep the spark alive in the relationship.
Feb 13, 2012
1:34 pm
Insecurity. You, Lady B and I agree on that. And in the end, who wants an insecure hero? Along the way, however….
Feb 13, 2012
12:40 pm
Jealousy can be a dangerous green eyed monster when out of control and some just aren’t strong enough to control it.
I’ve been reading through the comments and whereas most have felt that ‘innocent’ flirting and a certain hint of jealousy is good, I also see the comments that indicate the result of one party not ‘playing’ along.
I have a question for everyone.
Courtships have, in many ways, become a thing of the past with relationships leap frogging into sexual relationships more quickly than in the past – if we took more time to ‘get to know’ our future spouses would we see these dangerous traits before we commit or are some people just too good at hiding their true selves?
Feb 13, 2012
6:12 pm
Getting to know each other before committing to marriage has to be a good idea, Amy. I’m not sure, however, that the old way was any better. In fact I think a lot of people married without knowing their spouses at all. It could be a real lottery.
Feb 13, 2012
7:12 pm
I suppose there were plenty of wife beaters and stalker types even then, afterall that’s not something unique to the 20th or 21st Centuries. I’m just pondering if maybe if we were forced into a longer non-committed relationships that those signals of overly jealous, angry, abusive, and potentially murdering characteristics might come out sooner and save some folks from making desperately wrong choices. It’s difficult for someone to keep their true self hidden for too long as they become more familiar. I hope anyway.
Just a thought. I’ve known too many unhappy people in unhappy relationships but who are too terrified to leave.
Hope the green eyed monster is fast asleep tomorrow and everyone has a sweet and wonderful Valentine’s Day! xox
Feb 13, 2012
11:17 pm
I don’t know. I lived with my husband for four years before we got married. I surely would have killed him in his sleep by now, if I hadn’t been prepared properly. At least by the time we got married, I knew exactly what I was getting: a cover-stealing, practical joke playing, TV remote hogging, iPhone/laptop addict. And I also knew that the good stuff WAY outweighed the bad.
Feb 13, 2012
1:48 pm
Our agreement in our marriage is “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. I never look left or right. I’m pretty sure Jack doesn’t either. That’s why I read romance. I get my “cheap thrills” there.
Feb 13, 2012
6:14 pm
I like that, Susan! I think ogling pictures of gorgeous men on line gives a similar vicarious thill.
Feb 13, 2012
6:59 pm
Ditto that with us, Susan.
I know my dh is awesome, and I don’t mind some other woman noticing same. But let her take one step too close to him and I’ll rip her effin arms off and beat her with them. … she said demurely. LOL.
Gaelen, curtsying
PS–Eric feels the same way I do, so it’s cool. To me, that’s not insecurity, it’s passion.
Feb 13, 2012
7:06 pm
LOL!! Most definitely! There’s a difference between being jealous and protecting what’s ours. ; )
Feb 13, 2012
7:10 pm
Yeah, gerrrl! I’ll be taking my high heel shoes off and getting ready to throw down like I’m on Jerry Springer. LMAO. Just kidding.
Feb 13, 2012
7:13 pm
Hair pulling too! Can do some real damage with so many wearing hair extensions! I’m with ya!
Feb 13, 2012
8:45 pm
Lol! Did you hear about the concert that Faith Hill was doing a few years back with her hubby Tim McGraw? Apparently, some woman jumped on stage and grabbed his butt, and Faith got in her face about it, big time. Go, girl!
Feb 13, 2012
10:23 pm
Olivia, I didn’t hear about that! Hilarious. Wow…
Feb 13, 2012
1:50 pm
IRL, it’s interesting how often simply meeting someone’s eyes, listening to them and smiling is construed as flirting even if you are thinking nothing of the sort.
Feb 13, 2012
6:15 pm
Isn’t that the truth, Sabrina? The ability of human beings to misunderstand others is unlimited.
Feb 13, 2012
4:31 pm
Miranda, if only Lord Blackwood could hear your conversation with Lady B. He’d say “Miss Neville, steer your hero far, far away from jealously!” For jealousy plays a rather significant part in his past. Good luck finding the perfect balance with your jealous hero!
I *love* it that Lord B has an appreciative eye too. I would adore watching him spy on ladies at the seashore. What a rogue!
Feb 13, 2012
6:23 pm
When my jealous hero reaches The Ballroom (which won’t be for many months – I’m not even certain of his name yet) I shall ask Lord Blackwood to give him a talking to
Feb 13, 2012
7:15 pm
No name yet, Miranda! If you need help with that, I’m sure many of the sweet ladies here would be glad to make suggestions. ; )
Feb 13, 2012
7:22 pm
He has a name, but I’m thinking of changing it to another. I may not. But thanks for the offer, Amy
Feb 13, 2012
5:09 pm
I think Susan Knight made a good point – romance is my flirting! One of the things I love about reading and writing romance is that it gives that “infatuation” rush in a harmless way.
I think it’s natural to crave the newness of first attraction, and that’s hard to recreate when you’ve known someone for a long time. But a change of setting (romantic vacation) or such can provide the “newness” even within a familiar relationship.
As for looking… everyone looks! It’s only human.
Once, Mr. Dare and I drove up to the mountains for a day, and we stopped our car as this couple crossed the road, toting their kayak to the boat launch. They were the most gorgeous couple–straight out of a fitness magazine. And the guy… total cover model material.
Then we drove on, and my husband said, “Did you see what that girl was wearing?” I was like, “No. I was only looking at the guy.” He laughed and said, “There was a guy?”
Like someone said up thread – we’re married, not dead! Glad to hear Lord and Lady B share that philosophy.
Great topic, Miranda!
Feb 13, 2012
6:28 pm
That’s a fabulous story, Tessa.
I want to make it clear when I talk about married flirting that I don’t mean anything that even approaches the intent to be unfaithful. More a continued appreciation of the company of the opposite sex. It’s great fun to find yourself talking at a party to a charming guy, but it doesn’t mean anything will happen, or even that either of you is thinking of it. The most that might be going on, not very seriously, it a feeling of “if we were both single something might happen but we not so it won’t and we’re both cool with that.”
Feb 13, 2012
6:53 pm
Wow, you guys are all so suave & sophisticated, LOL. I am a Scorpio. Need I say more? Kind of a sensitive subject, so I’ll stay out of this one. *g*
Feb 13, 2012
6:59 pm
Uh oh. Gaelen has just served notice that she will stick a knife in any woman who makes a move on Prince Eric
Feb 13, 2012
7:06 pm
You’re probably wondering right about now where I’ve hidden the bodies…
Feb 13, 2012
7:26 pm
We are seeing quite a different side of Lady Gaelen this evening. She always seemed such a sweet, gentle gel. She appears to be dangerous and danger is always intriguing. However, I suggest she keeps all lethal weapons away Albert or I shall be forced to call in Lord B. and he will Not be Pleased
Feb 13, 2012
10:26 pm
Forgive me, Lady B. The nearer we come to St. Patrick’s Day, the more my Fightin’ Irish comes out. If the great Duke of Wellington can keep a rein on his Irish warrior spirit, then I, too, will try to restrain myself, however, I do suspect is was this that permitted His Grace to beat Boney.
Just sayin.’
Feb 13, 2012
11:21 pm
Ha! My husband’s a Scorpio. I told him that Katharine and Marquita and I were making jokes (not really) about rolling Hugh Jackman in sugar and…well, you can use your imagination from there. ANYWAY, he was all “Hahaha…haha……..ha.” Deadpan look. Walked away.
Feb 14, 2012
12:11 am
You mean he wasn’t amused by the notion of Hugh Jackman done up sweet? Fancy that!
Feb 15, 2012
5:46 pm
I feel his pain!!! LOL. It’s not our fault, we’re born that way. *g* You’re bad, though, torturing the poor guy like that, lol!
Feb 15, 2012
5:49 pm
PAGING BEEBS
Oh, Lady Beebs, are you around? If so, I was wondering if you know any Gaelic or have anyone handy nearby who does. One of my author friends is looking for a Gaelic word for “nomad” or “wanderer.”
If you don’t know, that’s fine, too, but if you are aware of any online resources with Gaelic translations, would you be so kind as to post a link for me? I’ll send her there.
Or not! I know you’ll help if you’re able, being a good Irish soul and all that.
Hope everyone’s in fine fettle today!
Gaelen, who is visiting with a lovely romance bookclub tonight here in ye olde Pittsburgh